cowasaki

cowasaki

Well-Known Member
I'm selling my vintage violin & viola as I don't use them enough and ploughing the money into my Defender. I'm planning on keeping the car indefinitely and was torn between getting a galvanised chassis/bulkhead or doing the drivetrain. Both are serviceable at the moment but there is a grind between 1st and 2nd on the R380 and the transfer box is leaking. When I retire I'll do the thing I haven't done now plus some other stuff so it'll all get done in the end anyway....

So my thought re drivetrain is:

Ashcroft R380 (£495) + HD rear bearing (+£160) + higher 5th gear (+£110)
Ashcroft LT230 (£495) + Sleeved casing (+£75) + ATB limited slip diff (+£300)
Ashcroft ATB for my rear axle's diff
Borg & Beck clutch & HD fork

I might even be lazy and get them to fit it as fitting the transfer box is free if they do the gearbox..... so just over £2000 plus the ATB for the axle. Alternatively I already have a brand new Borg & Beck clutch & fork so could do it all myself at about £400 less plus keeping my clutch for next time.

So my questions.....

Has anyone any experience of the ATBs? Are they worth it? Should I get front and rear plus transfer box? The saving from fitting the gearbox and transfer box myself would pay for the front one.... I've heard horror stories re driving onto ice with standard transfer box and frying it due to no traction re one axle etc.....

The Sleeving and HD bearings adds £235 to the price, is it worth it for piece of mind?

Anyone tried the higher 5th gear?
 
Shame no responses here, a very interesting post, and one im sure that a few others would want to see answers for..........
 
I'm afraid I didn't spot this thread when it originally came up. I put Ashcroft limited slips in my front and rear diffs just over a year ago and have found them very good. I'm not sure how they would put up with serious competition abuse, but looking around on the net I can't see anyone who claims to have broken one yet.
I wrote mine up here https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/axle-refurbishments.272149/ There's some comments at the end about how they feel and their capabilities, plus a link to a thread on Defender 2 net where a man says pretty much the same as me, but at greater length. Since then I've had more experiences with them on slippery surfaces such as wet fields and a few short episodes of snow this winter. So far so good. On wet grass I can outclimb a friend who has a TD5 with standard diffs and traction control. This winter I put an Ashcroft limited slip centre diff in as they just looked so cute. https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/building-the-gearbox-of-my-dreams.293835/
I've given the overdrive a bit of a workout on various motorway and dual carriageway trips but have yet to give the centre diff a workout. It seems very solidly and accurately made, by way of a first impression.
 
Cheers Brown, as always some very good write ups by you! I'm really keen to put the atb's in front and rear diffs, but I also am keen for either an overdrive or a new (recon) 1.2 trans box from Ashcroft, I'm not sure which way to go on that front, and awaiting funds as always! :)
Having fitted the overdrive, what do you think would be better, that or the 1.2? Mines remapped so I'm changing into top at 25 mph and at 50 it sounds overstressed, revy and loud...the trans would be cheaper I think!
Also may I ask what the point of the center lsd is? I only ask because when I'm on slippy surfaces I diff lock it anyway...cheers mate
 
You will only fry your transfer box if it has no oil in it.Also see little point in a center lsd unless you are continually switching from hard to slippery surfaces or just to lazy to operate the diff lock.;)
Had a tractor with a LSD front axle,fine most of the time but on ice was just nasty.One wheel would spin up, then with a snatch drive would jump to the other wheel and so on.
 
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I've got the gearbox fitted you described and its brilliant. The higher ratio 5th is excellent, cruise at 70 as if it was 60, quieter too, could my my imagination but I think my motorway MPG is improved too. Went for the HD Bearings too as they suggest it for tuned TD5s.

Read a few things on the centre LSD and from what I read it is good but only really useful if doing a lot of high speed stand/gravel driving or constantly in snowy/icey conditions. Which we arnt really in the UK very often....

Will follow because also interested in fitting a rear LSD.
 
Mr Gottschalk, you're very kind.

In answer to some of the other points, the take up on the Ashcroft LSDs seems very smooth, so there's not a sudden snatch. Or at least not that I've felt. On the plus side I've enjoyed much more successful progress up slippery slopes. The sort of thing I encounter in Wales like where the snow has been packed down by other vehicles and the morning sun has melted a film of water on the surface. Wet grass, surfaces with a veneer of manure or mud, that sort of thing, where you're apt to spin the wheels. I can just keep it in the highest gear which will afford forward motion and keep driving, rather than stopping and starting and waggling levers. As a result I dig less grass up and there's less drama in the snow. For example, when we had a blizzard in mid Wales back in November I was giving a bunch of people a lift that night and we surged effortlessly through areas where other vehicles had left the most incredible skid marks in the snow and clearly hit the sides. Everybody was really impressed, including me. I haven't tried anything seriously slippery with the centre diff, because we haven't had much snow yet this year, but I'm hopeful.

As to how the overdrive would compare with a 1.22 transfer box, I suppose a lot comes down to personal preference. I quite like the 1.4 version for trundling round town, as I can use 2nd for puling away and get up through the box quickly. The overdrive is more useful on longer trips. It's a big step up from normal 5th to overdrive 5th and the engine revs drop a lot. Acceleration is very limited. Once you've got up to 70 or so, slip it into overdrive and it'll keep you there, at around 2000 rpm. But the TD5 in standard tune isn't quite into its main power band at such low revs. Maybe I need a remap!
 
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I'm more excited now. Been contemplating it for the better part of a year! What your saying pretty much confirms me buying one, how difficult was it to fit yourself?
 
bankz5152 said:
I'm more excited now. Been contemplating it for the better part of a year! What your saying pretty much confirms me buying one, how difficult was it to fit yourself?
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the diffs or the overdrive? If the latter, you're pretty high geared anyway, with your new gearbox aren't you? So if you were to add an overdrive you'd be barely above tickover on the motorway!
Either way, I managed to do the mechanics myself working in the street with a fairly average amateur selection of tools. Changing the centre diff is a bit of a struggle without some sort of transmission lift or engine crane but I managed it. Not because of any technical difficulty but because you need to get the transfer box off, ideally, and you're lifting in an awkward position and can't get your full strength on it. For changing the centre diff it helps if you have a press, as the body of the diff also serves as the transfer box's final drive shaft so you need to press the gears and bearing off. The main time consuming things were, as usual with Land Rovers, getting seized nuts and bolts freed off without snapping them.
 
Rear LSD, how hard was it fitting that? Not that Ashcroft charge a lot to fit one, its the drive up there and back is a pain!

Not sure I have any need for overdrive! Though one thing I may consider when I swap my 90 (keeping the Ashcroft box) for a 110 is fitting an Ashcroft Disco transferbox while I'm at it, but still unsure...
 
I know a chap with a D2 who has Ashcroft ATB's front and back and he swears by them, he's based in Sweden so does a lot of snow driving.
 
The back one's the easiest. You just need to get the prop off, the halfshafts out of the way (undo the flanges and pull them out a few inches) and the ring of nuts around the diff casing. Mine wouldn't come off in most cases so I split them with a chisel. The studs needed cleaning up with a 3/8" UNF die to accept new ones. I also used new bearings, to save the struggle of getting the races off the old diff centres and because while you're in there it's good to ensure as much is renewed as possible. On my 'axle refurbishments' thread there's a bit of dialogue between me and JM about adjusting the mesh & backlash of the gears. Personally, as the ring gear and pinion have lived and worked together for ten of thousands of miles, I'd rather do it by feel, but JM is all for setting preload. That might be more useful for brand new gears that were not bedded into each other. If you're changing your gears Ashcrofts have all sorts of interesting tooth patterns and ratios to choose from. But then you'd need to do the front as well.
 
This does sound a little out of my wheelhouse... Was only planning on fitting a rear LSD for the time being, keeping all the gearing the same.
 
Well, just unbolt the ring gear from the old diff centre and put it on the new one. As you'll probably have seen from looking at the diff carrier, there are adjusters each side that you can screw in and out to eliminate slack from the tapered roller bearings and to get the ring gear in the best position in relation to the pinion. You can get shims to adjust the position of the pinion in and out too, but as I hadn't disturbed the pinions, I left them where they were.
 
I'll do some research and see if I am able to do this myself, or with a bit of help from mates. Would be nice to do, not tackled anything diff related except for swapping one. Got a spare in the garage too so can look at that
 
Brown said:
Mr Gottschalk, you're very kind.

In answer to some of the other points, the take up on the Ashcroft LSDs seems very smooth, so there's not a sudden snatch. Or at least not that I've felt. On the plus side I've enjoyed much more successful progress up slippery slopes. The sort of thing I encounter in Wales like where the snow has been packed down by other vehicles and the morning sun has melted a film of water on the surface. Wet grass, surfaces with a veneer of manure or mud, that sort of thing, where you're apt to spin the wheels. I can just keep it in the highest gear which will afford forward motion and keep driving, rather than stopping and starting and waggling levers. As a result I dig less grass up and there's less drama in the snow. For example, when we had a blizzard in mid Wales back in November I was giving a bunch of people a lift that night and we surged effortlessly through areas where other vehicles had left the most incredible skid marks in the snow and clearly hit the sides. Everybody was really impressed, including me. I haven't tried anything seriously slippery with the centre diff, because we haven't had much snow yet this year, but I'm hopeful.

As to how the overdrive would compare with a 1.22 transfer box, I suppose a lot comes down to personal preference. I quite like the 1.4 version for trundling round town, as I can use 2nd for puling away and get up through the box quickly. The overdrive is more useful on longer trips. It's a big step up from normal 5th to overdrive 5th and the engine revs drop a lot. Acceleration is very limited. Once you've got up to 70 or so, slip it into overdrive and it'll keep you there, at around 2000 rpm. But the TD5 in standard tune isn't quite into its main power band at such low revs. Maybe I need a remap!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, very informative, and I think its pushed me more to the overdrive side of things.

I totally agree about the 1.4, being able to tootle around town and for me pulling a trailer sometimes it probably makes more sense. My grandparents live in rural south France, so ill be popping over a bit to help with house maintenance etc, so that was my main concern with upping the gearing! I genuinely don't think ill be pushing past 70 (crap door seals, gets loud), bit thats fantastic if you recon its turning over at about 2000 rpm at that speed, just what I wanted to hear!

Many thanks again, Jas
 
tottot said:
You will only fry your transfer box if it has no oil in it.Also see little point in a center lsd unless you are continually switching from hard to slippery surfaces or just to lazy to operate the diff lock.;)
Had a tractor with a LSD front axle,fine most of the time but on ice was just nasty.One wheel would spin up, then with a snatch drive would jump to the other wheel and so on.
Click to expand...
I think what Cowasaki's referring to is the fact that with a standard centre diff it can get over stressed if you rev hard whilst the wheels on one axle are spinning and the ones on the other are stationary. Of course, if you noticed in time you could put it in centre difflock but with a limited slip centre diff it would be less likely to end up like that in the first place as torque would get transferred to the axle that was moving more slowly. Of course, like many Land Rover accessories it's probably not absolutely necessary, but then part of the fun of having a Land Rover is trying out different components. Anyway, I go to Wales a lot and it tends to be quite slippery underfoot all over, apart from when it has been unusually dry, like in the spring of 2011.
 
cowasaki said:
I'm selling my vintage violin & viola as I don't use them enough and ploughing the money into my Defender. I'm planning on keeping the car indefinitely and was torn between getting a galvanised chassis/bulkhead or doing the drivetrain. Both are serviceable at the moment but there is a grind between 1st and 2nd on the R380 and the transfer box is leaking. When I retire I'll do the thing I haven't done now plus some other stuff so it'll all get done in the end anyway....

So my thought re drivetrain is:

Ashcroft R380 (£495) + HD rear bearing (+£160) + higher 5th gear (+£110)
Ashcroft LT230 (£495) + Sleeved casing (+£75) + ATB limited slip diff (+£300)
Ashcroft ATB for my rear axle's diff
Borg & Beck clutch & HD fork

I might even be lazy and get them to fit it as fitting the transfer box is free if they do the gearbox..... so just over £2000 plus the ATB for the axle. Alternatively I already have a brand new Borg & Beck clutch & fork so could do it all myself at about £400 less plus keeping my clutch for next time.

So my questions.....

Has anyone any experience of the ATBs? Are they worth it? Should I get front and rear plus transfer box? The saving from fitting the gearbox and transfer box myself would pay for the front one.... I've heard horror stories re driving onto ice with standard transfer box and frying it due to no traction re one axle etc.....

The Sleeving and HD bearings adds £235 to the price, is it worth it for piece of mind?

Anyone tried the higher 5th gear?
Click to expand...
hd rear box brgs arent necessary input gear supports the mainshaft as well as the other 2 brgs
 
If I get the r380 I've got reconditioned by these guys and have the 5th gear changed to the higher 5th gear, will this negate the need for a Roamerdrive type thingy?
 
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