Christoff45 · Jul 1, 2020

Hi guys, a question for the legal beagles out there please.

I have a disco series 2, 7seater. I had an issue with the airbags so replaced them for springs. But now I'm told, by various sources, non of which are reliable, that it is a legal requirement for the 7 seater to have air suspension. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this statement please?

Many thanks,
Chris.

Shimsteriom · Jul 1, 2020

I believe what you have been told is correct. For the vehicle to be legally used as a 7-seater, it needs to have air suspension fitted on the rear.
If you remove the air bags then it would be wise to let your insurance company know.

jamesmartin · Jul 1, 2020

land rover do supply 7 seater rear coil springs, i cant see fitting those would be illegal

Shimsteriom · Jul 1, 2020

Hmm... maybe what I've been told is also wrong....

JUKE179r · Jul 1, 2020

jamesmartin said:
land rover do supply 7 seater rear coil springs,

Isn't that just heavy duty springs?

jamesmartin · Jul 1, 2020

JUKE179r said:
Isn't that just heavy duty springs?

theres 3 different part numbers for 7 seaters which dont say specifically hd but the difference between springs is the rating for different uses

discool · Jul 1, 2020

Christoff45 said:
Hi guys, a question for the legal beagles out there please.

I have a disco series 2, 7seater. I had an issue with the airbags so replaced them for springs. But now I'm told, by various sources, non of which are reliable, that it is a legal requirement for the 7 seater to have air suspension. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this statement please?

Many thanks,
Chris.

So your sources say that a law has been past forbidden the fitting of steel spring on Disco seven seater, perhaps they should provide proof of that and state when this was introduced.

lynall · Jul 1, 2020

I would say it is not illegal, but all it could take after an accident is a sharp eyed accident investigator and the insurance co might have views that cost you money?

Disco1BFG · Jul 1, 2020

Was the 7 seater type approved for UK use with coil springs ?

Given yours left the factory with EAS, are the dampers correctly specified as per LR ?

Have you told your Insurance company ? AND got their agreement, in WRITING that said modification is acceptable and remains under policy cover ?

kermit_rr · Jul 1, 2020

Most important, tell your insurance company. Check with a few others and make sure they are ok with it.
How will you level your headlights when the car is fully loaded?

Si Click · Jul 1, 2020

The issue is with the Certificate of Conformity - the legal statement that LR made declaring that they have built and sold a car in conformity with the regulations extant at the time. The D2 was sold with a Certificate that stated that cars with 7 seats would have locking mechanisms in the floor, headrests in the roof, 3 point seat belts and be fitted with SLS. It is illegal for a manufacturer to sell a new car without there being a valid Certificate of Conformity in place, but the obligation and legal constraint is upon the manufacturer. If you chose to subsequently modify your vehicle then as long as it is still considered roadworthy and safe (ie it passes an MOT and does not breach any motoring laws) then it is not illegal to do so. However, your insurance company should be informed. If they consider that the modification contributed to any accident you report, then they may still decide not to pay you, but they should still cover third party costs. If you don't tell them they will probably not pay anything.

Fitting coils to a vehicle with 7 seats is probably not an issue; unless an accident was caused by a failure of the new suspension, it would be almost impossible to show a connection. However, if you fitted 7 seats to a coil sprung D2 that did not have the locking bar, seat belts or fold down headrests, then any injuries to the occupants of those seats in an accident could easily be blamed on the modification.

Thor 1950 · Jul 1, 2020

Christoff45 said:
Hi guys, a question for the legal beagles out there please.

I have a disco series 2, 7seater. I had an issue with the airbags so replaced them for springs. But now I'm told, by various sources, non of which are reliable, that it is a legal requirement for the 7 seater to have air suspension. Does anyone know if there is any truth in this statement please?

Many thanks,
Chris.

Check with a LR dealer to see if they have/had a air suspension conversion.
Here in the US lots of vehicles have air suspension. And when they go bad there is a oem spring suspension offered as a optional repair. also there are several after market kits available. So don't go by hearsay and do some leg work and visit a LR repair center. Get the info straight from the horses mouth per say

discool · Jul 1, 2020

kermit_rr said:
Most important, tell your insurance company. Check with a few others and make sure they are ok with it.
How will you level your headlights when the car is fully loaded?

Exactly the same way as before with any vehicle fitted with a headlamp levelling system.

kermit_rr · Jul 1, 2020

discool said:
Exactly the same way as before with any vehicle fitted with a headlamp levelling system.

vehicles built before manual or auto levelling systems existed used different bulb/reflector technology and while oncoming traffic would see a brighter output as a result of headlight aim being too high, they wouldn't get dazzled/blinded in the same way as you do with more modern equipment with the harder EU cutoff.

discool · Jul 1, 2020

kermit_rr said:
vehicles built before manual or auto levelling systems existed used different bulb/reflector technology and while oncoming traffic would see a brighter output as a result of headlight aim being too high, they wouldn't get dazzled/blinded in the same way as you do with more modern equipment with the harder EU cutoff.

The 300 series D1 had the same headlamps fitted even though it could be fitted with the option of headlamp levelling! and later when fitted as standard, same with the RR before, and after the pre-facelift D2 fitted with D1 headlamps but now fitted with headlamp levelling.

tilly2 · Jul 1, 2020

My 2003 TD5 is a 7 seater. Its had the spring modification. I told the insurance company when I bought it and they stated it was a normal modification for a Land Rover, and passed it as ok.

300bhp/ton · Jul 2, 2020

Shimsteriom said:
I believe what you have been told is correct. For the vehicle to be legally used as a 7-seater, it needs to have air suspension fitted on the rear.
If you remove the air bags then it would be wise to let your insurance company know.

What law are you referring to that mandates this? Could you please share.

300bhp/ton · Jul 2, 2020

kermit_rr said:
vehicles built before manual or auto levelling systems existed used different bulb/reflector technology and while oncoming traffic would see a brighter output as a result of headlight aim being too high, they wouldn't get dazzled/blinded in the same way as you do with more modern equipment with the harder EU cutoff.

What technology in bulbs and reflectors are you referring too? I think you are getting yourself confused. A H4 bulb is a H4 bulb. You can't buy pre-self levelling ones...

Si Click · Jul 2, 2020

300bhp/ton said:
What law are you referring to that mandates this? Could you please share.

It is not a law, you are simply no longer meeting the Certificate of Conformity and therefore the Type Approval for the vehicle. As long as no motoring laws are breached and the vehicle is roadworthy, there should not be an issue - see post 11.

A CoC is a producer’s declaration that cars or motorcycles comply with the given approved type. This document contains information about the vehicle and its producer’s identification, type approval number, other technical specifications. The content of a CoC is defined by the European regulation (Amendment IX, Regulation 92/53). Vehicles which do not comply with the EU specification (as vehicle manufactured for the U.S. or Japanese market) and older vehicles that have not been given the type approval of the EC yet, cannot have an existing CoC. Similarly, it is not possible to issue a CoC for converted vehicles; in this case another technical document might help register your car. Only car and motorcycles are eligible.

NPG · Jul 2, 2020

300bhp/ton said:
What law are you referring to that mandates this? Could you please share.

Nowadays, the Certificate of Conformity is governed by EU Directive 2007/46/EC, which is essentially an update of an earlier directive (92/53). Member states are obliged to transpose directives into national laws so I'm pretty sure that the Certificate of Conformity is covered in full or in part by UK legislation. Note that following the UK's withdrawal from the Union, the directive will no longer apply to the UK unless it is specifically covered by the exit agreement. You may also get a copy of the certificate from LR as long as your vehicle was bought in the EU.

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