GARSE · Jan 31, 2008

Here's one for all the mods guys out there.....
I have a 1989 90 2.5TD that I reconditioned last year, new head, new pistons and all new bearings, new injectors and glow plugs etc.
What I want to do is fit an Intercooler, I have a TD5 rad and intercooler that I got very cheaply, Can I fit that ????
I also have a 200TDI intercooler and the lower and upper mounting plates for a 200tdi rad and intercooler, would that be easier or can I use a 200tdi rad and fit the TD5 intercooler in front of it????
Also what extra will adding an intercooler to my 2.5TD give me??

Any light shed on this will be greatfully received.

CharlesY · Jan 31, 2008

On the basis that you can (i.e. it is ultimately POSSIBLE ...) fit more or less anything to a LandRover, this should be a fair plan.

There will be a definite improvement in economy if you drive the same as before, and there should be a MODEST power gain, the more so if you shift the waste gate actuating pipe OFF the turbo outlet casing, and fit it to the inlet manifold instead.

Just remember that the 19TD engine is NOT indestructible - far from it, so don't expect it to last long if you make it work a whole lot harder. Keep the revs down, and use the pull.

These are INDIRECT injection engines, which are not nearly as suitable for turbo boosting, and high revs, compared to any DIRECT injection engines, such as the 200 and 300 TDi types.

Take care !

CharlesY

wunntenn · Jan 31, 2008

I fitted an Allard intercooler to my 1989 110 2.5TD 19J engine and did umpteen thousand miles with no problems. Hills I had to change down to second for pre-'cooler I could pull up easily in third. Allard set it up for me and they know what they're doing. I would suggest it's certainly doable, but would need some tweaking by an expert so that, as CharlesY says, you dont overstress the engine by creating too much poke.

borntobemild · Feb 3, 2008

Hi Garse,

As with wunntenn I have fitted an Allard intercooler to my recently reconditioned 19J. The difference is unbelieveable. Pulls like a train. Trouble is you tend to accelerate faster rather than gain any increase in fuel economy. Six people in it and it'll still accelerate uphill whereas before I was changing down with just me in it.

I notice that you're in Sheffield, like me, so if you want you can come and have a look and sees how everything fits let me know. 19J's don't like running hot and have big radiators. Fitting an intercooler reduces thermal stresses emormously so it should last forever now.

Regards borntobemild

wunntenn · Feb 3, 2008

The Allard unit was fitted centrally in front of the radiator and the pipes went below and into the engine. I guess with some bodging and bits of ally tube and decent hose you can do a similar setup. I reckon the long trouble-free life I had from my 19J was down to regular (4000 mile) oil changes and the intercooler reducing the thermal stress.

Badger · Jan 10, 2011

Dragging up an old thread here, what connects to what on the intercooler exactly on a 19j set up?

Cheers in advance

instantsquid · Jan 10, 2011

Same as any engine with an intercooler - it sits in the pipework between the turbo and the inlet manifold.

Badger · Jan 10, 2011

Gonna need a fair bit of pipework then...

instantsquid · Jan 10, 2011

Yep. Did your tdi come with any of the pipework? I'd imagine that would give you 90% of what you need.

CharlesY · Jan 10, 2011

PaulWilde said:
Gonna need a fair bit of pipework then...

Yes it does, and the VOLUME of pipes and the inter-cooler itself contributes to the slight delay in full throttle response, the so-called "Turbo Lag". All that stuff has to be brought up to pressure before the air-boost reaches the cylinders.

However, there are zillions of turbos out there, and no-one complains.

If you are going to fit an inter-cooler, the BIGGER THE BETTER!

Go to a scrappy and find one off a huge truck!

Remember, unless you also arrange for more FUEL to be injected, the power gain won't be huge, but it will be better, and the MPG should be a good deal better too.

Bascically, the more MASS of air, and the COLDER the air, that you can ram into a diesel engine, the more efficient it will become. That's a fact.
That is why we have turbos and intercoolers in the first place.

Just remember, the 12J, 15J, and 19J engines are INDIRECT injection engines, with a separate combustion chamber, and these engines suffer "pumping losses", which get heaps worse at high revs and under full throttle.

CharlesY

instantsquid · Jan 10, 2011

Forgive my ignorance here, but if it's the bringing up to pressure of the pipework and (presumably) the intercooler that causes turbo-lag, doesn't fitting a bigger intercooler make the lag worse?

Ian

CharlesY · Jan 10, 2011

instantsquid said:
Forgive my ignorance here, but if it's the bringing up to pressure of the pipework and (presumably) the intercooler that causes turbo-lag, doesn't fitting a bigger intercooler make the lag worse?

Ian

YES!
That is a certainty - the laws of physics say so.
Much of the so-called 'turbo lag' comes first from the time it takes for the exhaust turbine in the turbo to pick up speed. These things rotate at fantasic revs, up 100,000 rpm steady even cruising, and up to 150,000 rpm on full boost in many engines.

BUT ... does the 'lag' bother you? You won't even notice it except in the one case of thumping your foot to the floor, especially at low engine revs when there might not be enough exhaust coming through to spin the turbine up against the drag of the impeller at the compressor side of the turbo. In my Disco TD5 the turbo seems to do NOTHING (I have a boost gauge) until the revs are up to about 2,000 rpm and the throttle is decked. That is not turbo lag - that is too slow an engine speed.

A good demo of 'turbo lag" is to set your turbo Landy in 4th gear, 45 mph on the flat, cruising gently, then deck the GO pedal smartly. You may notice about half a second delay before the power comes in hard. THAT is turbo lag. Who cares?

CharlesY

Badger · Jan 10, 2011

I have the intercooler in already alongside the 200TDi rad, temps are higher overall due to a 3rd of the radiator mass missing, but in all honesty the intercooler was there, so why not fit it?

No pipe work came with the 200Tdi, hence it was free

That engine is still sat doing nowt until the money starts flowing a tad more, so as the 19J is still ticking along, why not fit the intercooler anorl.

I'll give the scrappy's a visit over the week, i need a pipe from the rear of the turbo to the intercooler and the intercooler back to the inlet manifold, that's gotta be apprx 2 metres of pipework

instantsquid · Jan 10, 2011

2 metres???? How big is your engine bay???

Badger · Jan 10, 2011

instantsquid said:
2 metres???? How big is your engine bay???

The turbo faces the bulkhead, so the piping has to go that way, turn 180 and to the front of the engine bay, then has a nice trip back, given the bends ( possibly use summat else ) 2 metres should do it

disco2shaun · Jan 10, 2011

out of curiosity, could i put a bigger intercooler from the "scrapies" on my td5 disco? dont fancy paying £500 for a performance 1

CharlesY · Jan 10, 2011

disco2shaun said:
out of curiosity, could i put a bigger intercooler from the "scrapies" on my td5 disco? dont fancy paying £500 for a performance 1

YES.

There is a huge amount of space in front of the TD5 radiator.

Let me know which one fits best and get me one too!

A biggie from a truck would work a treat.

CharlesY

disco2shaun · Jan 10, 2011

the scrappies i go then. do you think id have to alter the pipework?

CharlesY · Jan 10, 2011

PaulWilde said:
The turbo faces the bulkhead, so the piping has to go that way, turn 180 and to the front of the engine bay, then has a nice trip back, given the bends ( possibly use summat else ) 2 metres should do it

Really? which part of the turbo faces the bulkhead?
How about a couple of pics of your present setup?

If the pipe runs are long, use SMOOTH bore pipes and BIG pipes, with properly made bends.

Consider 35mm copper plumbing pipe and solder fittings.

CharlesY

Hamsterberg · Jan 10, 2011

CharlesY said:
YES.

There is a huge amount of space in front of the TD5 radiator.

Let me know which one fits best and get me one too!

A biggie from a truck would work a treat.

CharlesY[/quotte

Is that right ? you can fit an intercooler of anything basically as long as you can make it fit, ?

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