towing quetion

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I've towed loads with my Rangie and never bothered to lock the ride height...will be tugging our Smart Car half the length the country tomorrow on an A frame as I'm on contract daaarn saaarf and we need two cars down there!!! The Brian James trailer I've got for the Smart is great to tow behind the Rangie, but the A frame is much much simpler to hook up on our steep drive!!! Please no comments about legalities of A frames etc - it's all been done to death on most motorhome forums already!!!!!!
 
zzr1200 said:
Legally loads, practically they're great at times...:rolleyes:
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Don't start:doh::eek::eek: Many a flame war has started about this on motorhome forums particularly:D:D Stick to repairing dodgy P38s, its a lot easier, I promise!!!!

Suffice to say, no-one has EVER been prosecuted in the UK for using them and the police view them as legal provided trailer law is adhered to.:cool: In EU countries, where police are armed and generally a law unto themselves, and hate Brits in general, there have been problems.
 
rangiegal said:
Don't start:doh::eek::eek: Many a flame war has started about this on motorhome forums particularly:D:D Stick to repairing dodgy P38s, its a lot easier, I promise!!!!

Suffice to say, no-one has EVER been prosecuted in the UK for using them and the police view them as legal provided trailer law is adhered to.:cool: In EU countries, where police are armed and generally a law unto themselves, and hate Brits in general, there have been problems.
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so can you use these A frames on motorways,legally or otherwise??.
 
rangiegal said:
Don't start:doh::eek::eek: Many a flame war has started about this on motorhome forums particularly:D:D Stick to repairing dodgy P38s, its a lot easier, I promise!!!!

Suffice to say, no-one has EVER been prosecuted in the UK for using them and the police view them as legal provided trailer law is adhered to.:cool: In EU countries, where police are armed and generally a law unto themselves, and hate Brits in general, there have been problems.
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You are correct in stating that as yet nobody has been prosecuted for using them. There are a few hundred people who have received notices of intended prosecution for them though.

If used correctly A frames do not come under trailer law. They come under regulations for recovering a broken down vehicle. Completely different lighting regulations as of 2000.;)
 
rangiegal said:
Don't start:doh::eek::eek: Many a flame war has started about this on motorhome forums particularly:D:D Stick to repairing dodgy P38s, its a lot easier, I promise!!!!

Suffice to say, no-one has EVER been prosecuted in the UK for using them and the police view them as legal provided trailer law is adhered to.:cool: In EU countries, where police are armed and generally a law unto themselves, and hate Brits in general, there have been problems.
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Repairing vehicles is easier at times....;)


gemsdad said:
so can you use these A frames on motorways,legally or otherwise??.
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The main problem appears to be that if you tow a vehicle with one, apart from a very short recovery...:rolleyes:.. (to the nearest SAFE place), the car+'A' frame is classed as a trailer under the law, even a Smart+ A frame is above the 750kg requirement for un-braked trailers, so can be considered illegal.

Some 'A' frames had/have a braking system that links to the vehicle brake pedal but are not considered to meet the requirements for trailer brakes. Even towing dollies fitted with brakes are a grey area, as the load also has wheels on the road and again aren't considered to meet the requirements for trailer brakes.

Personally having owned/used both A frame and car/flat bed trailer, I prefer the trailer option.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
So - wots the difference then, Herr ratmeister?
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the lighting regs for a trailer require that a number plate, number plate light, stop/tail/turn lights and red triangles are all needed.

The lighting regs for a broken down vehicle (as ammended in 2000) require that red reflectors must be showing to the rear. (they're built already on the back of all cars so that covers that). A number plate must be showing to the rear. (It doesn't specify if it's the broken down vehicles or the towing vehicles so thats also covered), and red lights showing to the rear between dusk and dawn (turn the sidelights on and again you're covered). This means that a broken down vehicle CANNOT be a trailer as if it were a trailer you would be contravening the road lighting regs by not following the trailer lighting regs. This also blows the 750kg arguement out of the water as again you have already proved that the towed vehicle is not a trailer.

Those using an A frame to tow a non broken down vehicle cannot use the same lighting regs as they ARE towing a trailer. The whole arguement over whats legal and whats not is as a direct result from the average police officer and VOSA guy being unable to differentiate between the 2 uses.

I still get police officers now (9 years on from the change in law) threatening to ticket me for failure to use a trailerboard. If you want to get technical about it, A vehicle with no tax MOT or insurance must not be driven or towed on a public highway with any of it's wheel touching the ground. Correct? If a casualty vehicle being towed on an A frame was a trailer (as the police and VOSA claim it is) it would be legal to tow it as it isn't a car and therefore doesn't require tax, mot or insurance.
 
Clear as erm..... mud :eek:

So it aint a trailer - coz it needs tax and MOT.
wot happens if yu got someone in the towed vehicle to operate the brakes etc? Does it then be come a self braking device?
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
Clear as erm..... mud :eek:
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Hence no prosecutions. Think about how many people have been 'wrongly' prosecuted for towing a vehicle without tax, mot and insurance. Were they wrongly prosecuted or not?

So it aint a trailer - coz it needs tax and MOT.
wot happens if yu got someone in the towed vehicle to operate the brakes etc? Does it then be come a self braking device?
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NO. the brakes must be automatic. If you wanna get really technical ALL trailers and caravans are illegal as the brakes are not balanced in relation to the vehicle that is towing them. You would need to fine tune each trailer to each individual vehicle. I have the brake coupling system for my A frame but have rarely used it. Whats more dangerous, no brakes on a towed vehicle or the vehicle locking it's wheels up everytime you brake?

I asked VOSA about the legalities of towing vehicles on ropes, bars, A frames and spec lifts. They are UNABLE to answer my questions. If you ask VOSA a question and they cannot answer it they cannot prosecute you for it. If what the police and VOSA say about A frames is true then the same applies to speclifts, straight bars etc. That means that most breakdown vehicles are illegal.

If the brokendown vehicle is NOT a trailer then trailer regs cannot be applied. If trailer regs don't apply there is no weight limit. If there is no weight limit then you cannot be overweight. As there is no category on the driving licence for 'towing a broken down vehicle' ANYBODY can tow a broken down vehicle as it isn't a trailer and therefore you are not restricted. Can of worms it is then.;):D
 
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