oil in the wrong place

Had a major oil escape in my recently (150 miles or so) garage serviced td5 last year. Engine stopped dead,hot, not sure if there was smoke (it was dark). Pretty sure there wasnt any. Wouldnt turn over: was recovered to another garage (didnt trust first to deliver an honest opinion). Turns out there was too much oil in engine. About 3 litres was taken out of the engine before the oil level hit the max mark. Some of it was above the pistons. No fuel in oil, no water or emulsion. Subsequently had cooling troubles- coolant leaks. Exhaust manifold warped- has been skimmed. Engine running fine now (touch wood), about 4500 miles after that event.
No bent conrods, no head gasket issues then or since. I am still in discussions about the original service charge and all the related costs since then.
Does anyone have any idea what might have happened here? Just 150 miles or so after being serviced?
Any views gratefully received.
Thanks

Had an apprentice on the job who didn't know how much oil to put in? Emptied two 5litre containers in because they didn't know what was needed? Only they know the truth.

What a DIPSTICK.

Whatever you sort out, in the future always bear in mind when a vehicle has just been serviced its the most dangerous time for the car, never take a vehicle away without first checking all the levels.

lynall said:

Whatever you sort out, in the future always bear in mind when a vehicle has just been serviced its the most dangerous time for the car, never take a vehicle away without first checking all the levels.

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I concur.
When I first moved in to the village I live in now, 30 years ago, I thought I'd try the local garage to get my car serviced. It was a Friday and I picked it up after work and drove home - about a 2 minute drive. all was ok. We was going away for the weekend and once we were packed we set off. I drove around the corner to a friends to drop something off at a mates. A few hundred yards down the street and the car started to wobble. Thirty seconds later I pulled on to my mates drive and got out. One of the front wheels was at a bad angle and the wheel nuts were about to fall off. Lifted the bonnet and there was oil all over the top of the engine. The brake fluid reservoir cap was dangling in to the engine bay and looking underneath the plastic cover, under the engine, was hanging down. If the wheel had come loose straight away in the village a minute later I would have been on the 60mph A road that the village lies on. Could have been nasty

Al2O3 said:

Had an apprentice on the job who didn't know how much oil to put in? Emptied two 5litre containers in because they didn't know what was needed? Only they know the truth.

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I can believe thats how the oil got in: it doesnt explain how I got so far before the engine gave up, how the engine stopped with so little damage. Maybe there is a God- bet he doesnt drive a landy, it would be impossible to be omni-present relying on one. Thanks for the reply though

unluckyforsome said:

I can believe thats how the oil got in: it doesnt explain how I got so far before the engine gave up, how the engine stopped with so little damage. Maybe there is a God- bet he doesnt drive a landy, it would be impossible to be omni-present relying on one. Thanks for the reply though

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Sorry, got the wrong end of the stick from your first post. Why are you surprised it managed to get 150 miles before stopping?

Al2O3 said:

Sorry, got the wrong end of the stick from your first post. Why are you surprised it managed to get 150 miles before stopping?

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I am surprised because if the oil had bypassed the rings slowly I guess it would be burnt off (as most cortina owners are aware), and so would never have built up in quantity enough to stop the engine. If the oil had bypassed the rings quickly some event must have occurred,but doesnt hydraulic locking happen instantly? You dont sound surprised I got so far so I would be interested to hear more.. Thanks

unluckyforsome said:

I am surprised because if the oil had bypassed the rings slowly I guess it would be burnt off (as most cortina owners are aware), and so would never have built up in quantity enough to stop the engine. If the oil had bypassed the rings quickly some event must have occurred,but doesnt hydraulic locking happen instantly? You dont sound surprised I got so far so I would be interested to hear more.. Thanks

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I don't know why it stopped. How do you know the oil was above the pistons? There's quite a cavity in the area around the crank and in the sump. I'm not sure 3 litres above max level would take it above piston height. The clearance between the top of the piston and the cylinder head is extremely small, so it wouldn't take much fluid to fill it. Maybe there was enough engine oil getting passed the rings to stop the oil/diesel mixture combusting, but not quite enough to cause it to hydraulically lock? Diesels are good oil burners though

Al2O3 said:

I don't know why it stopped. How do you know the oil was above the pistons? There's quite a cavity in the area around the crank and in the sump. I'm not sure 3 litres above max level would take it above piston height. The clearance between the top of the piston and the cylinder head is extremely small, so it wouldn't take much fluid to fill it. Maybe there was enough engine oil getting passed the rings to stop the oil/diesel mixture combusting, but not quite enough to cause it to hydraulically lock? Diesels are good oil burners though

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To get this engine to turn over, it was necessary to remove the injectors: the oil sprayed everywhere.
Regarding how the oil got there in the first place, I found this out today, which may have been what happened to me: when the system is running normally oil is pumped around the engine- main bearings, gudgeons, cranks, rocker shaft, tappets, etc. The oil pumped up to within the rocker cover normally drains down through drainage holes in the block back into the crankcase ready to be pumped around again. Because of the temperatures encountered in the engine some of the oil in the rocker cover is in the form of a mist. This mist is drawn down through the rubber pipe that heads off, ultimately, to the air filter, to be introduced with clean air into the combustion chamber by the turbo.
However, if there is much too much oil in the system it is not a mist that is bled off by that rubber pipe, it is liquid oil, which is then fed into the combustion chamber via the air filter and turbo. As I have just remembered from school, you cant compress a liquid, therefore the engine has no option but to grind to a halt.
I am open to other interpretations and conclusions though, if anyone can offer an alternative.
On the subject of diesels being good burners, I remember an old marine engineer telling me of a ship's engine in the Indian Ocean running on for three weeks after it had been shut down, just burning lube oil from the sump drawn up past the piston rings.

Yep, that's pretty much right except that the vent from the rocker cover doesn't feed in to the air filter. It feeds in to the pipe that comes out of the air filter and goes in to the turbo. There is a system to collect this vapour in to oil droplets and feed those droplets back in to the sump.
If oil squirted out of the injector holes then it looks likely that oil in the cylinders caused a hydraulic lock. In which case you are extremely lucky that no damage was done. I mentioned diesels being good oil burners because that's what they are. Oil getting in to the cylinder stands a very good chance of being compressed to the point of combustion. So, you are lucky you didn't encounter a runaway as you described in the old ship. They are usually more fierce than that though!

Than

Al2O3 said:

Yep, that's pretty much right except that the vent from the rocker cover doesn't feed in to the air filter. It feeds in to the pipe that comes out of the air filter and goes in to the turbo. There is a system to collect this vapour in to oil droplets and feed those droplets back in to the sump.
If oil squirted out of the injector holes then it looks likely that oil in the cylinders caused a hydraulic lock. In which case you are extremely lucky that no damage was done. I mentioned diesels being good oil burners because that's what they are. Oil getting in to the cylinder stands a very good chance of being compressed to the point of combustion. So, you are lucky you didn't encounter a runaway as you described in the old ship. They are usually more fierce than that though!

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Thanks for all that- the confusion is becoming less, unlike the outstanding garage bill.

unluckyforsome said:

Thanks for all that- the confusion is becoming less, unlike the outstanding garage bill.

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There's a limited number of ways that oil can get in to the cylinders. Past the rings, down the valve guides, via a failed head gasket, via the inlet manifold (eg - as you described with the oil coming via the rocker breather) Your theory sounds plausible to me.
Just wondering, did the garage test the compression in the cylinders?