motor blew up

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Landy89 said:
Well, i have another head gasket problem...i installed the 1mm elring head gasket yesterday, and today it blew out. The engine was running warm the whole time. I am very curious why the engine is running warm..it is climbing hills....we used a heat gun on it and the temps were all in the normal operating range..though the temp gauge on the panel was warmer than what i was used to. it was slightly in the black, while i am used to it being in the middle of hte gauge (the white)
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Are you sure youre using the right thermostat?

What sort of conditions are you operating in and did you run it in at all after the rebuild?

Dont understand what you are saying about the gauge.My gauge never goes morethan half way and wouldnt get ther at all if just left idling.

What was the performance like before the gasket blew,was it all set up right?
 
The operating conditions here are hilly and very hot (35C).
The thermostat is a 74C model from LR.
We ran the engine for about 1 hour at idle before taking it on the highway.
After the 1mm OEM gasket blew out (and engine overheated in the process), we installed a 2.2mm custom gasket and went back to the highway. Temps were always in the "white" on the gauge and well below 85C with the heat gun...though after about 20km there was blue smoke coming out of the rocker cover.

I am very frustrated with this engine and the near impossibility to communicate with the Portuguese speaking mechanics is making things even worse. There is clearly something wrong with the cylinder head (my opinion). Mechanics claim that it is not warped...
I would like to point out that the power of the engine is about 5 to 10% less than it was before the rebuilt.

I am not seriously exploring getting a used 300tdi installed...will make final decision on Monday.
 
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Why all the guesswork with the head gasket? AS far as I know, the thickness is a result of piston-stand-proud and valve-stand-down, there is little room for guesswork in a diesel.

Is there any chance the head has been skimmed too far I would check for warp myself if at all possible. If it keeps blowing gaskets it can really only be the head warped unless the block was skimmed and a crap job was done on it.

Dave
 
I agree that the thickness of the head gasket is a function of the piston protrusion and the valve recess. I measured both myself and the 1mm OEM gasket suffices...but i have got 'expert' opinion for two mechanics that have overhauled my engine the past 2 months that i require a 2.2mm gasket to avoid over-compression...now how and who i am supposed to believe on this? I tried with the 1mm OEM gasket and it blew out in 10kms. i tried with the 2.2mm gasket and it lasted a little longer, but still blew out....the funny thing is that i drove 2000kms before this on one head gasket. Which leads me to believe that the current mechanics (a machine shop actually) did not do a proper job with the head or the block. But how do i check it myself?
 
Landy89 said:
.but i have got 'expert' opinion for two mechanics that have overhauled my engine the past 2 months that i require a 2.2mm gasket to avoid over-compression.
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ave i missed something here - what's the reasoning for your mechanics thinking there'll be too much compression ?
 
Sean said:
ave i missed something here - what's the reasoning for your mechanics thinking there'll be too much compression ?
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That's what was bothering me too, it sounds like they don't know much adoo about anything. With the right gasket, it is simply not possible to have too much compression! UNLESS they have done something foolish like face the block and not reface the pistons to allow for the lower block face/higher piston crown, if they have done that then they are not worthy.

If they skimmed the head on a mill like a Bridgeport turret mill then it will not work. To check the face you need a steel straight edge and some feeler gauges that's all.

A 2.2mm gasket is a spacer not a gasket, to withstand compression it would need reinforcing etc at that thickness, make sure they didn't use any silicone sealant on the gasket either as it's too sloppy and can cause a gasket to blow. If the faces are correct and the head is torques down properly (this is vital on an ally head) then it should all be good.

Backyard engineering would be ok on a 2.25petrol lump but things need to be a bit more 'right' for a more modern diesel with an ally head.
 
I don't know exactly why the mechanics here are telling me i have too much compresion with an OEM gasket (they never tested the compression with the OEM gasket installed), as i can't understand portuguese very well. I know from talking to RIchard Turner that too much compression is impossible, but other people have told me that with my oversize 40 pistons and the heavy load of a 110 and the heat here in Brasil and the big hills on the highway that i have too much compression for the load my Defender is under and that when under load the compression goes out the weakest spot (the head gasket). With a 2.2mm gasket i reduce the compression enough to avoid this problem - at least that is what i am told...

i am starting to think that my problem with overheating is with the injection pump timing...i can confidently say that my vehicle feels about 10% underpowered and is overheating which are big signs of timing pump issues.
 
Landy89 said:
I don't know exactly why the mechanics here are telling me i have too much compresion with an OEM gasket (they never tested the compression with the OEM gasket installed), as i can't understand portuguese very well. I know from talking to RIchard Turner that too much compression is impossible, but other people have told me that with my oversize 40 pistons and the heavy load of a 110 and the heat here in Brasil and the big hills on the highway that i have too much compression for the load my Defender is under and that when under load the compression goes out the weakest spot (the head gasket). With a 2.2mm gasket i reduce the compression enough to avoid this problem - at least that is what i am told...

i am starting to think that my problem with overheating is with the injection pump timing...i can confidently say that my vehicle feels about 10% underpowered and is overheating which are big signs of timing pump issues.
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was the custom gasket hardened ?

are you 100% sure your cooling system is working correctly ?
 
I don't know exactly why the mechanics here are telling me i have too much compresion with an OEM gasket (they never tested the compression with the OEM gasket installed), as i can't understand portuguese very well. I know from talking to RIchard Turner that too much compression is impossible, but other people have told me that with my oversize 40 pistons and the heavy load of a 110 and the heat here in Brasil and the big hills on the highway that i have too much compression for the load my Defender is under and that when under load the compression goes out the weakest spot (the head gasket). With a 2.2mm gasket i reduce the compression enough to avoid this problem - at least that is what i am told...

i am starting to think that my problem with overheating is with the injection pump timing...i can confidently say that my vehicle feels about 10% underpowered and is overheating which are big signs of timing pump issues.
 
Update on my engine...The problem of overheating has been solved. The cause?
1) the mechanics had planed the head improperly and it was irregular!! This was causing compression gas escaping into the coolant system and forcing my coolant to become pressurized. When the coolant was pressurized, it escaped out the overflow line and left my coolant system with insufficient coolant which then overheated my engine and would blow my head gasket. Today the mechanics noticed this problem and replaned my head. Now my engine is running at normal temps - the gauge is in the middle.
2) The mechanics also reset teh timing on my injection pump which was out by a few degrees. This was causing overheating and lack of power.
3) i also installed a slightly strong springed radiator cap.

All seems to be well now with the temperatures and power of my engine. WE did a compression test and found we had 16 bars of pressure in each cylinder. THe mechanics installed a 2mm custom gasket (even though i wanted a 1mm OEM gasket). Anyways, if the head gasket fails in the future i will just install a 1mm OEM gasket.
 
Well, its good that she's running again, nice one.

But,

I am at a loss as to why they seem to want to stick with the oversize gasket, it makes no sense. Did they measure pistons / valves at all or just guess???

If they muffed up the head machining, is it really their line of work??

I would be wary of the higher pressure cap, it can lead to a blow out somewhere else - rad core, heater matrix, pipes etc.

Dave
 
I measured the valves and pistons protrusion myself and a 1mm gasket fits fine, but i think the mechanics wanted to put two gaskets on it to keep the escape gas temps low and the temps in the head low. This engine runs quite cool now. In fact when the outside temp is 15C, the temp gauge is about 1/4. There is no thermostat as well. I exepect to be driving in places where the outside temp is 30-40C, so it is set up well to avoid oveheating. It has probably a small amount of less power than it should as well, but nothing serious.

Actually the machining of the head was messed up becuase they used a third party for the head as they didn't have the tools for welding on the head. It was a third party that messed it up, but i still blame the mechanics as they should have checked it first before installling it.

It has a higher pressure cap than before, but that is becuase it had a very low pressure cap before. the original cap is nowhere to be found.


It has a few issues i have noticed in the past 2 days of driving. 1) it has a small amount of blue exhaust when the engine is at idle or cold. I assume this is rings related. 2) there seems to be a small leak of oil from teh rear seal which is strange as they installed a new seal 4 days ago.
 
Well i didn't make it very far with my newly rebuilt engine. The head gasket was leaking after 1500kms and pressurizing the coolant system. I pulled off the head and to my surprise the mechanics who rebuilt the engine installed 2 OEM gaskets instead of one!! no surprise that it was leaking. They were also kind enough to put two copper washer in one of my fuel injectors instead of the commonly used one washer. Brasilian mechanics = idiots.

I have now installed 1 OEM head gasket, fitted a new injector (somehow it was cracked), and a new glow plug (also broke somehow). Will give it another test run to see what happens. If it doesn't work out, i am going to install a used 300tdi as that is my only option here - about US$6000 for a used motor here in Brasil.

By the way, does anyone have an opinion on how many times it is safe to use a set of head bolts before replacing them? My head has been off and on probably 20 times in the past 2 months.
 
Landy89 said:
Well i didn't make it very far with my newly rebuilt engine. The head gasket was leaking after 1500kms and pressurizing the coolant system. I pulled off the head and to my surprise the mechanics who rebuilt the engine installed 2 OEM gaskets instead of one!! no surprise that it was leaking. They were also kind enough to put two copper washer in one of my fuel injectors instead of the commonly used one washer. Brasilian mechanics = idiots.

I have now installed 1 OEM head gasket, fitted a new injector (somehow it was cracked), and a new glow plug (also broke somehow). Will give it another test run to see what happens. If it doesn't work out, i am going to install a used 300tdi as that is my only option here - about US$6000 for a used motor here in Brasil.

By the way, does anyone have an opinion on how many times it is safe to use a set of head bolts before replacing them? My head has been off and on probably 20 times in the past 2 months.
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I agree with DaveK, you should really get new bolts.Sorry to hear of your ongoing troubles with the mechanics hope it is sorted now.The injectors should have steel washers at the end of the nozzles too,might be worth a check,they wont seal well without them.As Ive said before you could easiy convert to 2.5na it has far less thermal stress than 2.5td. When you say that you had 5-10% less power than before this might be just a tight new engine! My new engine took 10,000miles to loosen up fully.I wouldnt let the engine idle to run it in you need to drive normally but avoid using full poiwer at first,build up to it gradually. Good luck! 300Tdi is great engine but thats loadsamoney!
 
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