DSE - Starting problems - Probably multiple

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gencybay

gencybay

gatvol
Full Member
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I'm new here and not a mechanic by trade or nature. The old bus, '95 DSE, has never been a good starter. Recently refused to start but cranked fast (no longer as battery is well drained).
I've got a Nanocom evolution. It showed two faults. Synch and glowplugs. I've resynched and think that the glowplugs have been on the way out for a while.
There is also a four inch bubble in the fuel line between the filter and injector pump.
Leak-offs seem to be a common problem and the cheapest to fix so I did those today.
Tried jump start after that. No joy and the bubble doesn't pass through the injector pump.
I want to start with the cheapest and work upwards. I've looked at Wammo's L/R document on starting so have this as my 'strategy'.
1) Replace filter and its 'O' rings (I'll have to read up on priming) - if no joy,
2) Replace glowplugs (This involves buying a few new tools plus the terror of having to remove the inlet manifold) - if no joy
3) Glow plug relay - if no joy
4) Wait till my mechanic mate returns from hols, drop fuel tank and replace lift pump - if no joy
5) Panic, because the injector pump looks horribly expensive.
Low to high cost, have I missed anything out?
Would the Nanocom identify FIPS faults this early in starting?
Any other ideas for early test? Nanocom Evo and multimeter to hand.

Thanks,

G~
 
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as you have done a resync already i would be looking at intank pump first.
very easy to check take the fuel line of at either the filter housing or injection pump and turn ignition on no need to crank and see if any fuel comes out, if it does then intank pump working if it dont then it aint!
then check relay but if you have no fuel coming out it is prob intank pump.
post results and more advice will be coming.
glowplugs are pretty easy and a word of advice do not fit cheap pattern glowplugs such as britpart they are crap!!!!
 
Hi

You really need to spend a bit more time searching on here.

You will find reference to a land rover technical bulletin relating to poor starting which amongst other things tells you how to check the in tank pump.

It is also easy to check if the glowplugs are getting 12V with your meter.

To enable us to help you more, also suggest you describe the problem in a bit more detail - key thing being has it always been a poor starter cold, hot, or both?


Cheers

Jerry
 
jerrytlr said:
Hi

You really need to spend a bit more time searching on here.

You will find reference to a land rover technical bulletin relating to poor starting which amongst other things tells you how to check the in tank pump.

It is also easy to check if the glowplugs are getting 12V with your meter.

To enable us to help you more, also suggest you describe the problem in a bit more detail - key thing being has it always been a poor starter cold, hot, or both?


Cheers

Jerry
Click to expand...

I'll try the tech bulletin lift pump test tomorrow. Is a standard multimeter probe likely to get far enough down into the relay socket of an I going to have to make something?

Cold starting has been 3 or 4 hits of the glowplugs followed by billows of smoke for a few seconds.
Hot starting has been 10-15 seconds of cranking.

I would happily return to that as walking is a pain.

G~
 
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OK my guess is glowplugs

This should fix the cold starting issue, hot is most likely injection timing out.

But either way follow the tech bulletin and let us know the outcome.... it's easy to do.

Cheers

Jerry
 
If you have sucessfully doen the re-sync then the next step must be to check the in tank pump then change the glowplugs. Whatever you do it will not start from cold if the glowplugs are shot. BERU, NGK, Bosch, or Delphi, not cheapo's off Ebay or you will be going nowhere.
 
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gencybay said:
I'll try the tech bulletin lift pump test tomorrow. Is a standard multimeter probe likely to get far enough down into the relay socket of an I going to have to make something?

Cold starting has been 3 or 4 hits of the glowplugs followed by billows of smoke for a few seconds.
Hot starting has been 10-15 seconds of cranking.

I would happily return to that as walking is a pain.

G~
Click to expand...


Your glow plugs are knackered change them. Think i can say that without fear of contradiction. You have done the spills, so bleed the air out of the pipe in normal manner. Undo banjo on FIP a little and get someone to cycle ignition on and off when engine is cold to force lift pump to run with glows, that will also tell you if pump is working. When air has gone nip banjo up. Checking the filter O rings maybe worthwhile but they are bastards to get out sometimes, you need to be very careful. Taking manifold off is easy with a socket set and a wobbler. For glows you will need a 12mm extension socket and suitable extensions and ratchet or T bar.
 
Last edited:
Datatek said:
If you have sucessfully doen the re-sync then the next step must be to check the in tank pump then change the glowplugs. Whatever you do it will not start from cold if the glowplugs are shot. BERU, NGK, Bosch, or Delphi, not cheapo's off Ebay or you will be going nowhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I repeat that I'm a novice at this. I've read some horrific tales about the glowplugs, heads coming off them etc. I'm also petrified of dropping something into the pots whilst I have the manifold off.
Would I be wasting my money investing in:
1) eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
2) 3/8 ratchet, extensions and specific glowplug sockets
3) 3/8 torque wrench (cheap) for occasional use
4) Manifold gaskets (not sure if the old ones will be OK to be re-used)

Anything else I'll need as I'll have to order tonight if I've got a prayer of delivery for Saturday.

Thanks for all the quick replies.

G~
 
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wammers said:
Your glow plugs are knackered change them. Think i can say that without fear of contradiction. You have done the spills, so bleed the air out of the pipe in normal manner. Undo banjo on FIP a little and get someone to cycle ignition on and off when engine is cold to force lift pump to run with glows, that will also tell you if pump is working. When air has gone nip banjo up. Checking the filter O rings maybe worthwhile but they are bastards to get out sometimes, you need to be very careful. Taking manifold off is easy with a socket set and a wobbler. For glows you will need a 12mm extension socket and suitable extensions and ratchet or T bar.
Click to expand...

Wobbler? Is that one of those u/j jobbies?

G~
 
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gencybay said:
Thanks. I repeat that I'm a novice at this. I've read some horrific tales about the glowplugs, heads coming off them etc. I'm also petrified of dropping something into the pots whilst I have the manifold off.
Would I be wasting my money investing in:
1) eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
2) 3/8 ratchet, extensions and specific glowplug sockets
3) 3/8 torque wrench (cheap) for occasional use
4) Manifold gaskets (not sure if the old ones will be OK to be re-used)

Anything else I'll need as I'll have to order tonight if I've got a prayer of delivery for Saturday.

Thanks for all the quick replies.

G~
Click to expand...


If you have a plastic manifold they are O rings can be used again. If not they are gaskets a little Hylomar will work wonders on the old ones. Glows don't usually break but the tops of them do undoing the wires. Replace the glows with a little Copaslip on the threads, easier next time.
 
Definately new manifold gaskets. I use a 1/4 socket set with a special long socket, coat the threads of the new plugs with coppa slip, I don't use a torque wrench but have a bit of experience and you would have to go some to shear the plugs of with a 1/4 wrench length.
 
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Def worth ordering 6 new gaskets if you have the alloy manifold - I took my manifold off to do the glowplugs a while back and all 6 gaskets broke up, none were reusable. They are so cheap it's worth having them to hand just in case.

Cheers

Jerry
 
jerrytlr said:
Def worth ordering 6 new gaskets if you have the alloy manifold - I took my manifold off to do the glowplugs a while back and all 6 gaskets broke up, none were reusable. They are so cheap it's worth having them to hand just in case.

Cheers

Jerry
Click to expand...

That's why i mentioned Hylomar. Used properly you don't need gaskets.
 
Apologies for rudeness in delay in providing update. A couple of things took preference and my multimeter decided to go u/s.

Glowplugs replaced today - well 5 out of 6. Number 5 (counting from front) did not come out in one piece. The heating bit stayed in so I had to replace the threaded bit. 5 out of 6 should be OK and I don't have a compressor to ensure that there is no ingress if I drill it out. A job saved for later in life.

Still no joy but I feel like the mutt's nuts having used a socket set in anger for the first time in 25 years.

Nanocom still gives a glowplug fault but I don't know whether that is because the overall resistance is out due to number 5.

I have mended the multimeter. Cheap piece of rubbish and the battery to board terminals needed realignment.

Proposed next tests.

1) Fuel delivery test on the tank side of the filter. I am wondering whether the problem is because a very neglectful owner (me) has allowed the filter to become so old and clogged that fuel delivery is the problem! The bubble pushes through on ignition cycling but flows back.
I will follow wammers bleed idea on the banjo but wish I'd done so before replacing the manifold. (btw manifold gaskets replaced - mine has the silver manifold so the shape is different to the very useful thread (http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f10/range-rover-p38-hard-start-glow-plugs-lot-pics-155826.html)

2) If OK, use newly repaired multimeter to check voltage on number 2 glowplug head during pre-heat.

3) I would have liked to have given the battery a charge overnight but it is raining Datsun cogs so will have to rely on the booster for testing.

Thanks for reading.

G~
 
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No power to glow plugs! However, the dash pre-heat light is working.

Is the dash indicator taken from the same terminals on the glow plug relay as the glow plugs or between the timer and the relay? I'm guessing the latter.
Nanocom still shows a glow plug fault so is this a failed relay?

Thanks,

G~
 
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Looking down into the ECM compartment, is the glow plug the black box down to the side on the metal box. There are two fairly hefty terminal screws visible. The left hand one shows 12v. The right hand one 0v - This does not change when the pre-heater warning light come on.

I'll try and add a pic but I'm not sure how to on this board.

G~
 
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Picture to clarify last post. There seem to be a lot of wires for a relay!

ecm.png


G~
 
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