Clutch switch reverse operation!

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Baldric427

New Member
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14
Location
Somerset
My discovery TD5 has poor throttle response most noticeable at low revs.
I have just looked at the clutch switch which, according to Rave, should be normally closed. Mine works fine but is normally open.
I removed the connector, shorted the contacts and took it for a spin. Throttle response seemed much improved.
Is it possible I have a wrong switch fitted? Do they make a unit for other models that works in reverse?
I will happily change the switch for a new unit if that is all that is required but, I can't help feeling it is unlikely that I have a wrong switch fitted.
What am I missing?
 
It deffinatly must be normally closed, afaik the open one is for defender... put new one part nr MSK500020, if u will still have poor throttle response at low revs make an adjustment on the brake switch too(described in RAVE)...happened to me, see this post http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1949274-post7.html


@EDIT: i made some investigation and yes, there are two types of clutch switches(same body), and the one for fender is open... so, according to microcat you need MSK500020(s/s MSK100070) and the one for fender is MSK500010(s/s MSK100050) ... i saw that some supplyers are mixing them so take big care
 
Last edited:
sierrafery said:
It deffinatly must be normally closed, afaik the open one is for defender... put new one part nr MSK500020, if u will still have poor throttle response at low revs make an adjustment on the brake switch too(described in RAVE)...happened to me, see this post http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1949274-post7.html


@EDIT: i made some investigation and yes, there are two types of clutch switches(same body), and the one for fender is open... so, according to microcat you need MSK500020(s/s MSK100070) and the one for fender is MSK500010(s/s MSK100050) ... i saw that some supplyers are mixing them so take big care
Click to expand...

Many thanks, new switch ordered. Much, much better now I have shorted out the socket. I will look at the brake adjustment potential issue too.
 
Very strange! The 2001 RAVE and the 2003 RAVE do not agree.
In the 2001 it states normally open and in the 2003 normally closed. So which is it?
 
.... it's the MSK500020;) ...what's different, the text or the diagram? ...in my rave(2000) which covers both types it's stated closed...ckeck what kind is the one which works fine on your car and you'll know for sure
 
sierrafery said:
.... it's the MSK500020;) ...what's different, the text or the diagram? ...in my rave(2000) which covers both types it's stated closed...ckeck what kind is the one which works fine on your car and you'll know for sure
Click to expand...
Yes your are right, I will try with/without shorting pin to see which is best.
Actually, I think the error is the same in all Rave manuals. The workshop manual TD5 management system says one thing and in the technical brochure diesel engine TD5 it contradicts. Very strange.
Thanks
 
Baldric427 said:
Yes your are right, I will try with/without shorting pin to see which is best.
Actually, I think the error is the same in all Rave manuals. The workshop manual TD5 management system says one thing and in the technical brochure diesel engine TD5 it contradicts. Very strange.
Thanks
Click to expand...

@sierrafery @Baldric427 Did anyone actually get to the bottom if if the one for the defender is normally open or closed?
MSK50020 part number says late defender 2007 onwards just to confuse things even further!
I have a 2003 TD5 90 Def so assume the correct one for my vehicle is number is part number MSK500010(s/s MSK100050)
However please forgive me should be normally open or closed? (my switch is normally closed, is I have continuity across switch when pedal is NOT depressed)

i am now totally confused!
 
All i know 100% sure is that for the D2 should be normally open... as i said it's a real mess around this subject...though MSK500020 is for D2 in most online stores but if you google out the part numbers you'll find confusing info

did you measure while you depressed the pedal? ...does it open then?
 
Thanks mate, I have a pain in the butt recent problem, intermittent hunting or lumpy Idle.

Original fault was poor starting, so :

New injector seals ( discovered injector roller mis-aligned and scoring cam so fitted new cam and injector rockers)
New Glow plugs
New MAF MAP and ATS
EGR deleted 2 years ago
Now starts perfectly (half a turn), but appears to have developed this annoying & intermittent fault.

So I cured the starting problem, but trying seems I now have another problem!
To diagnose this fault I found a serious imbalance on two injectors, so replaced them as well.

Fault seems to be exacerbated by depression of the clutch or driving fwd or back a few feet.
The clutch spigot bearing does make a noise for around 60 seconds when first driving, but it has always done this.

Crank Position sensor?
DMF on the way out?
Clutch switch?

I am totally out of ideas now! Any ideas?
 
Yes!
If i start from cold and touch nothing its fine, if i rev its fine.
Depress clutch and rev with clutch pressed lumpy idle
Release cutch and rev lumpy idle.
Press and release cutch then rev lumpy idle
Worse if I drive forward or back a few feet.
120K mileage no idea if DMF or clutch has ever been changed.
 
yesterday started fine, I covered around 110 miles no problems at all.
this morning problems again.
 
Unplug the switch and do that test again at idle, if it's the same with switch unplugged the electrical side is ruled out and it means it's something mechanical as the clutch keeps dragging just a bit after it was released and puts load on the engine then better replace the whole lot including the DMF then at least this side is covered for the next few years
 
ok will give it a go, but as the switch is normally closed, then disconnecting it would replicate clutch pedal being pressed?
Should I not connect the terminals together maybe and try aswell?

Also problem seems to go away if I disconnect MAF or ATS ,
 
Yes you can try both ways with clutch switch unplugged and bridged...though if the problem goes away with MAF unplugged the problem is on that path, if the new MAF you fitted was not genuine better drive without it, only GENUINE LR is doing a proper job, nothing else, nor OEM, nothing
 
sierrafery said:
Yes you can try both ways with clutch switch unplugged and bridged...though if the problem goes away with MAF unplugged the problem is on that path, if the new MAF you fitted was not genuine better drive without it, only GENUINE LR is doing a proper job, nothing else, nor OEM, nothing
Click to expand...
I fitted a VDO MAF? if the ATS ( on air box ) or MAF is disconnected problem goes away, its driving me mad honestly!
 
make somehow to record a live data/fuelling inpuits log with nanocom when the symptom occurs and post it here.... VDO MAF which is not genuine LR is just an expensive aftermarket, not 100% reliable just a bit better than cheaper aftemarkets... drive it with MAF unplugged without fear
 
sierrafery said:
make somehow to record a live data/fuelling inpuits log with nanocom when the symptom occurs and post it here.... VDO MAF which is not genuine LR is just an expensive aftermarket, not 100% reliable just a bit better than cheaper aftemarkets... drive it with MAF unplugged without fear
Click to expand...
ok will do thanks for your help, so we rule out the CPS for now then yes?
 


Seems to happen when the clutch switch sends open signal to ECU, and not before but once its sends signal problem persists regardless of switch open or closed. (without depressing the clutch) Turn of engine close switch and start seems to be ok.
Maybe my ECU fuel map is corrupt?
@jamesmartin be interested to hear your view on this as well.
 
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